This week, we're diving into the beautiful, challenging world of breastfeeding with the amazing Jennifer Lezak. Jennifer is an international board-certified lactation consultant, a true expert who's helped countless parents at top LA hospitals like Cedar-Sinai and Good Samaritan, and through her private practice, Milkmaid LA. She's here to share her wealth of knowledge and support for all things breastfeeding and postpartum.  

What We Discuss

(0:00) Introduction  (1:56) Surprise! Breastfeeding is hard for 98% of moms  (4:09) Breast is best but your sanity is better  (5:55) However you feed your baby – they will love you  (7:02) Breastfeeding is hard, and it’s also not free  (8:07) How will I know when to stop breastfeeding?  (13:28) Bottle feeding does not cause nipple confusion – babies are smart  (15:23) A little stash of breastmilk is not the same as a freezer full of it  (16:24) Babies get hungry – they don’t care about schedules  (18:03) Baby weighing scales do not belong in your dreams  (19:46) Top tip to boost milk supply – it takes work  (23:00) It’s possible to know if you will potentially have low milk supply  (25:27) Many people today were not breastfed, and they turned out great  (29:16) Why work with a lactation consultant?  (30:34) Must have product, besides an Ergobaby carrier?   (32:33) If you can’t sleep at night, try mentally taking yourself on a walk  (33:27) Words of advice: breathe and ask for help if you need it 

Resources + Show Notes

Ergobaby | ergobaby.com • instagram.com/ergobaby • tiktok.com/@ergobabyofficial  Jennifer Lezak | milkmadela.com • instagram.com/jenniferlezak • instagram.com/milkmadela

Transcript

(0:00) Introduction

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Hey everyone, I'm Brandi Sellerz-Jackson and this week on the Life with Baby Podcast, I'm talking to Jennifer Lezak, the go-to lactation consultant for new moms navigating the bittersweet journey of nursing. Jennifer Lezak is an international board-certified lactation consultant that is helping countless parents on their breastfeeding journey. She has worked at several hospitals in LA, including Cedar-Sinai and Good Samaritan, along with many years in her own private practice, Milkmade LA. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] She has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to all things breastfeeding and supporting parents as they navigate their postpartum journey. Welcome to the podcast, Jennifer. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Thank you for having me, you guys. I'm so excited. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] I'm so excited. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I've got a long history with Ergobaby, so I'm always happy to keep it in the family. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yes, you do. I think we were just saying how when we met, I think my middle child, who's now eight, was a baby, a baby, baby, like a newborn. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And that’s correct, yes. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] A newborn. And I remember seeing you and hearing through whispers that, oh, she's a lactation consultant. She's a lactation consultant, and I was on the struggle bus when it came to breastfeeding. And I remember thinking, I need to talk to her. But I remember talking to you and you just being so warm and gentle and just so encouraging and just letting me know that you can do it. You can do it. And you'll be fine. Everything's fine. Everything's okay. And I think that's what parents, we all want to hear that when we're in the deep, in the trenches. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Absolutely, it's hard. It's all hard. My job is more like keeping people calm. I always tell people, don't look too far into the future because then you start panicking. Yes. Just look at today. You're going be fine. Then let tomorrow come and it'll be fine.

(1:56) Surprise! Breastfeeding is hard for 98% of moms

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Which leads me to my first question. I think this is a great place to start. What are the most surprising things about breastfeeding that most people don't talk about? [JENNIFER LEZAK] I would say the most surprising thing about breastfeeding would really be how hard it is and how time consuming it is in the beginning when you're first learning. And people that don't understand, they're saying, you need to teach people to breastfeed. I don't understand. Don't you just know how to do it? And I like to remind people, we don't really live in a village culture here in this country, certainly. Even for myself, I happen to have a good friend who was breastfeeding before I had kids. And I was like, so what do you do? Let me watch. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] So tell me more about this. Yeah, yeah. [JENNIFER LEZAK] But really, most people don't see anyone breastfeeding up close until it's themselves. I would say rare, because people come crying every day and I'm like, listen, it's rare the person that a baby comes out and they latch immediately and there's no problems. I say like maybe 2% of people does that happen to. Most of us, it's a struggle to figure out how to latch the baby, get comfortable. And in best case scenario, I always say you're going be sore, tender, sensitive for a good couple of weeks. And then you add sleep deprivation on that. It's hard, it's hard. And I think that's the one thing, we take breastfeeding classes and we read books, but really nothing can prepare you for the exhaustion of those first couple of weeks. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah, they're brutal. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, when I meet people, I'm like, I'm not trying to scare you. I just want to be realistic on how normal it is to be exhausted, to be tired, to be like, I don't understand how anyone does this for a year and sort of feel like a failure that you don't love it right away. And it's not for everyone. And I don't really have pressure anyone to do anything.

(4:09) Breast is best but your sanity is better

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] And I love that you said that too, because I think in this culture of breast is best, breast is best, breast is best, it's like your sanity is best. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Absolutely, that's my number one rule to people. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah, your sanity and your mental health is actually best. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I always say you're hyper-focused. I understand where you are. You're like, looked at Instagram and everyone's breastfeeding and it looks so easy and like, why don't they have 10,000 pillows? I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. And I just like to remind people like, Instagram's not real, don't look at it. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Don't, don't. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It will get easier, but it is so hard in the beginning. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It's so hard, it's so hard. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And I think many people look to have, not an excuse to quit, but permission. Yeah. And I think that's so important. Like, we shouldn't feel guilted into breastfeeding. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] No, absolutely not. No. Absolutely not. And I love that it's coming from you and IBCLC that we shouldn't, you know, because I think in the middle, in the midst of like the sleep deprivation and this pressure. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Society pressure, right? [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Right, we have to do it, we have to do it. And it's like, there's some people, it's just not, it's not going happen. You know, I mean, I remember with my oldest, you know, I didn't breastfeed him. I breastfed him for like six days. I don't even think six days. And it was just because, you know, back in 2006, there was no such thing as Instagram. There was no such thing as, you know, this like community that we kind of have now. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, which is good and bad. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Which is good and bad.

(5:55) However you feed your baby – they will love you

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] And I didn't have, you know, my mom didn't breastfeed. You know. [JENNIFER LEZAK] My mom didn't either. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] John's mom didn't breastfeed. They come from that generation where it was like bottle, bottle, bottle. [JENNIFER LEZAK] She was like, we thought formula was better. I didn't know, I don't know. Right. Like, I still love you. I'm walking around happy. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] I'm okay. Right. And then like, you know, I think if I was the only person in my friend group that had had kids at that time, cause we were really young. So I didn't have that. And so I could have either beat myself up about it or just, I don't, you know, give myself that permission to do what I needed to do for my mental health. And the same thing with my, you know, every journey I think was different with each kid. And I just didn't even factor in that each kid was going to be so different. I mean, every dream that I had was about breastfeeding, every, and weigh-ins. And it's funny too, cause I read this article and I saw myself and this is what gave me permission to do whatever I needed to do.

(7:02) Breastfeeding is hard, and it’s also not free

I remember reading this article about this other mom who's postpartum and she's because of sleep deprivation and because of, you know, hormonal shifts, she literally began to have postpartum psychosis. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Oh yeah, yeah. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] And started imagining snipers on her roof of her house. And she ended up having to be committed just for that short time. She was sharing her story about how, give yourself permission to get whatever you need because postpartum is real and breastfeeding is really hard. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And when people say, oh, it's free. And I'm like, no, it's not. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] But is it though? Is it free? And they only say that because they don't value our sanity. That's why they say it's free. And our time and energy. No. It's not free. It's not free. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It's the hardest job ever, yeah. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It costs something. It costs.

(8:07) How will I know when to stop breastfeeding?

[JENNIFER LEZAK] I always tell moms, cause you know, they ask, you know, well, how long should I breastfeed? I go, breastfeeding should only continue when both parties agree they want to do it, right? And when one party decides, I don't want to do it anymore, then we don't do it. We just let it go. You're so hyper-focused. And I think a lot of it is society and family pressure. I always tell people, I'm like, it doesn't matter how you feed your baby because they're going love you no matter what. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] They're going love you. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I go, this is your hyper-focus. I understand that. I go, but look, in two years, your hyper-focus is going shift to daycare. And what daycare? Oh my God, they need the best daycare. And then it shifts to preschool. And then it shifts. And I'm like, it never gets easier. It just, it's different. And you just have to allow yourself to come, you know, first in a way, because really your mental sanity is the only thing holding the family together. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah, that's the only thing that we have. [JENNIFER LEZAK] That is all we have. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Baby will be happy if we're happy. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I feel like, yeah, the number one thing that people don't expect is how hard it's going be and how much time. I always tell people, I would expect you're holding your baby 22 out of every 24 hours in the beginning. And they're like, what? [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Easily, easily. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Because what they hear in the hospital is feed your baby every three hours. And I'm like, no, no. What you should hear is feed your baby anytime they look hungry, even if you just finished feeding them. But if it's been longer than three hours, then we start waking them up in the first like two weeks. Really no baby is, breastfeed for 15 minutes, breastfeed for 15 minutes. I swaddle up, I put him to bed, and three hours later I breastfeed for 15 minutes. I'm like - [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh no, it's not like that. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It's never, that's never, if something was going on like that, there's something wrong with your baby because they should be awake. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] They're constantly, yeah, they're constantly eating. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And they want to be here. They know your voice, they know your heartbeat. They want to be held. They don't want to go in whatever bassinet you spent $400 on. They want to be with you. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Period.

(11:36) It’s important to bottle feed even when breastfeeding

What would you say is the best way to transition from bottle feeding to going back to work? For those who may need to leave baby at home, you know, for work or appointments, what's the best way to do that? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Even if you're not going back to work and a lot of people say, well, I don't need to bottle feed because I'm going be home with my baby. And I always encourage people to teach your baby how to take a bottle because life gets in the way. You don't know what's going happen. You could go to the doctor and then car accident, you get stuck in traffic for hours and your baby's at home hungry. If your baby doesn't know how to take a bottle, it's stressful for your baby, it's stressful for whoever's caretaking for your baby, and it's stressful for you. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yes! [JENNIFER LEZAK] So regardless of going back to work, I always encourage people like around that second or third week, if you haven't already introduced a bottle, introduce a bottle and be consistent. Sosome people will go, I gave him a bottle at three weeks ago, but then you didn't give him another one until five months. And they're like, I don't want this anymore. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] They're like, what is this? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, I'm like, be consistent. If one a day seems like too much for you to do, then one every few days. Like here's this thing, you know how to do it, it's fine. It shouldn't detract from your breastfeeding experience. It's just another tool in your toolbox. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah, and I call it self-care. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, absolutely. You might want to go to Vegas, I don't know, go get a facial, go to a spa all day. But like if you baby only breastfeed, you're kind of stuck. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It gives you options, I think. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Absolutely, I think there's nothing wrong with bottle feeding a baby. And I really think it's important that babies know how because there's nothing more stressful than the mom that calls that's saying, oh my God, I have to go back to work on Monday and my baby won't take a bottle, what do I do? And I'm like, ooh, okay.

(13:28) Bottle feeding does not cause nipple confusion – babies are smart

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] What are the common misconceptions that you hear a lot when it comes to bottle? Because that's something that we hear about, like – [JENNIFER LEZAK] Nipple confusion is the number one. And everyone's like, you know, well, what about nipple confusion? I'm like, your baby's not confused. They know what your breast is and what a nipple is. What that really, they're thinking in their head is flow preference, right? A bottle's really easy, the milk comes out, you don't have to do much to get it. Whereas at the breast, obviously you've got to work at it if you want to get milk out. So I always say it's flow preference. There's no nipple confusion. So even the most, you know, sleep-deprived couples that come in, I'm like, just pump and give them a bottle and take a nap, have your husband feed them, have your partner feed. And then, well, what about nipple confusion? I'm like, there isn't, that's not a thing. You know, if your goal is to breastfeed and your baby's getting the majority of their feedings at the breast and you give one or two bottles a day, they're going be fine. It's really the baby that starts getting the majority of a bottle too early and maybe just a few times at the breast that there's a chance they can get preference to the easy, fast flow of a bottle. I don't have a problem with you starting a bottle on day one. If that's what you need, go for it. But make sure your baby has a lot of skin-to-skin time, a lot of time at the breast. One or two bottles a day is not going break your breastfeeding relationship. And in terms of going back to work, sadly in this country, you have to go back. I see women all the time that can go back at six weeks, 12 weeks is the norm, which is so hard. But I always say, well, let's not stress about that right now, focus on this first couple of weeks here. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Right.

(15:23) A little stash of breastmilk is not the same as a freezer full of it

[JENNIFER LEZAK] I would say like a couple of weeks before you need to go back, you know, you want to pump to create a little stash, right? You don't need those freezers full of milk that you see on social media. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] You don't need that. [JENNIFER LEZAK] But you don't need those, right? Your body's designed to feed your baby, not fill a freezer and feed your baby. I would say you want to have enough milk in your freezer for the times you can't pump at work, right? So you've got a little stash going, but ideally what you're pumping while at work is what's feeding your baby the next day. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Again, like allow yourself grace. Going back to work is hard. Leaving your baby, even if they're with family members or a great daycare, it's stressful. And then work on top of that. I say like do the best you can and you're going be fine. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] That part. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I don't like to stress people out even a little, you know. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It's not needed. [JENNIFER LEZAK] No.

(16:24) Babies get hungry – they don’t care about schedules

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] What are your thoughts on on-demand feeding versus scheduled feeding? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Well, there really is no scheduled feeding. You know, I don't know when that really happens. It's always on-demand. Because even if your baby at a certain point gets into a routine, right? It's never a schedule. What are you going say? I'm sorry, baby, it's two. You're not eating till three. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] You're not on schedule yet. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Right. They get into a routine. So you kind of know what to expect after several weeks. Like, okay, they kind of wake up at seven and then they eat. But as you know, that can go out the window any moment, any day. You know, they can get sick. Guess what? They're awake again all night and they want to be on you. They can start teething. They learn a new skill. You went to Disneyland and the next day they fall apart. Those are things that happen every day. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] All the time. [JENNIFER LEZAK] There's really no schedule. It's really you feed on demand and do the best routine that you get into knowing at any moment it could fall apart. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It could switch. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, it could fall apart. I mean, what kid is really ever on a schedule? Even the older they get. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] No, because life is always shifting. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Life is always shifting. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] And I'm talking about even the most stable of lives. Like it's still, because kids are always growing. Yes, changing, hormone. You are, too. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh my gosh, that part. [JENNIFER LEZAK] So many people. When can we start the schedule? And I'm like, you could try, [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] You could try. [JENNIFER LEZAK] But I don't think it's going go very well. It's going stress you out more.

(18:03) Baby weighing scales do not belong in your dreams

[JENNIFER LEZAK] It's like people that keep scales at their house. And I'm like, let's put that away. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh my God! Can we just talk about that? Like, what are your thoughts on that? Because I, listen, I told you, I was one of those parents that, the scale was like, it was in my dreams every single night. Like, what is the number going say for my baby? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah. I mean, I can understand if you were having an issue with weight gain, but again, I wouldn't probably suggest bringing that into your house. It just is going cause you too much stress. Yeah. Too much stress. Especially people that are like weighing after every feeding. I'm like, no, they're not eating the same amount all the time. So you're, you know, we're looking at an overall picture of this. Mostly if I go on a home visit and I see a scale, I'm like, let's slide that into the closet. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Let's just move this out of the way. We don't need this right now.

(19:46) Top tip to boost milk supply – it takes work

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] All right, so what are your top tips for boosting milk supply? Because I know that's something that our parents of course want to know. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I know, and I will say this. Many times it's perceived low milk supply, right? You're perceiving it. You're thinking, well, I'm only able to pump one ounce. Yeah, but you're exclusively breastfeeding and your baby's gaining weight. You shouldn't be really having anything excess as an oversupply. So I would say most of the time it's a perceived low milk supply, right? Yeah. But a true low milk supply, we have to look at so many factors. It could be the baby. It could be your anatomy. You know, I don't know. Or like, oh, I'm breastfeeding, but I'm sleeping through the night. That's like, that's the number one thing. Because people call, oh, I had a full milk supply, but it's going down. And I'm like, well, did something change? Like, did you get ill or no? And I'm like, okay, so you're breastfeeding, you know, how many times during the day? And then what are you doing at night? Oh, well, we're, you know, giving formula at night. I'm like, okay, well, there's your problem. You have to wake up and either pump or breastfeed. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Or it's going, yeah, it's going decrease. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, milk doesn't really just disappear. Usually there's something that's happened that causes it. You know, lots of skin to skin. I hate to say pump after breastfeeding - that is a short-term plan. You will burn out on that very quickly. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Very quickly. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Really, you know, removal of milk is what makes more milk. My top tips are stay hydrated, stay close to your baby, breastfeed anytime they look interested. If you need to pump after to try and get a boost up, you can do that. Sometimes teas and, you know, tinctures and pills can be helpful. I mean, not always. They're not a magic cure. And I do find many people coming in that aren't putting in the work to make the milk, but well, what can I eat? And I'm like, it's not about what you're eating. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It's supply and demand. [JENNIFER LEZAK] You can be malnourished and still provide milk for your baby. You know, you have to put in the time, you know? But also I don't want to like pile on like guilt onto someone that's already got a whole bunch of things on their plate. So a lot of time I'm like, breastfeed with the milk you have. I mean, I say like, well, how would it feel if you just breastfed with the milk you had and then topped off with formula? You know, how would that feel to you? And you know, everyone's different. It's hard, it's hard, especially when it is like a physical thing. Like their body just isn't like, maybe they have what we call insufficient glandular tissue. It's going be really hard for that person to make a full milk supply. And it's devastating. You know, I feel that, you know, there's so many women that have low milk supply, like true low milk supply. And you know, their dream was to breastfeed. It's so hard. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah, yeah. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And you know, and you just have to allow yourself, again, grace to say, okay, well, I'm goingmake something else in its place. It's not the end all be all.

(23:00) It’s possible to know if you will potentially have low milk supply

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] How would people find out if they had actual like low milk supply, whether it's through anatomy, like you said, the glandular? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Ideally, OBs, right? When, you know, certainly I know they do. They look above your belly button and they should look and be like, okay, your breasts to me look like the kind of shape that you may have this. You know, they would be maybe tubular, wide space, cone shaped, not a lot of breast tissue there. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Right. [JENNIFER LEZAK] You know, if you knew pregnant, oh, this is a thing. I gotta kind of put it in my brain somewhere that I may not make a full milk supply. It's not as devastating. Yeah. Versus once your baby comes out and then I show up in your hospital room and go, oh, did anyone ever talk to you about your breast shape before? And they're like, no. I mean, I would say most of the time, lactation consultants are the first person to tell these women, oh no, your breast shape might be the type that may not make any milk, low milk, you know, certainly not a full supply. And that's like, you know, you're just dashing someone's dreams the moment their baby comes out. It's hard. It's so hard. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] That's very hard. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I would ask if you're pregnant or have concerns thinking, you know, do I have this? Ask your doctor, have them do a breast exam. You know, if your doctor isn't quite the lactation consultant and know going in because it's going be an easier pill to swallow than once your baby's here and you know. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Yeah. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It's hard. And you're stressed and everyone's like, well, look, my sister made all this milk. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] And you're like, wow, thanks, thanks. We appreciate it, Edna. [JENNIFER LEZAK] People like, well, you know, the grandma, well, your sister made a lot of milk. I'm like, hey, you're not helping. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] You're not helping. [JENNIFER LEZAK] You go out of the room. You're out. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Out of the room. Thank you. We appreciate your input. Your very unsolicited input. Thank you. That does not make them feel better. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, but if you're breastfeeding and your baby's gaining weight, you don't have a low milk supply just because you can't pump ounces after breastfeeding. Yeah, like you don't need that, you know? So I think a lot of times it is perceived low milk supply, which, you know, you need to understand you're designed to make the milk your baby's drinking today, not in five years.

(25:27) Many people today were not breastfed, and they turned out great!

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] What would your encouragement be to someone who is struggling to breastfeed or just simply can't? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Support groups are helpful. There's a lot of like postpartum support groups out there. Just talking, knowing you're not alone. Like doom scrolling social media isn't going help you. Put your phone down. Take a walk. Look at your baby. There's so many things that go into raising and loving a baby. Like breastfeeding is just one of them. And luckily, certainly in this country, we have access to good formula, most of the time, clean water. So your baby's going be fed two years from now. And so you're going look back. It's not going matter how you fed them because you've moved on and they love you and they're happy and they're healthy. I mean, look at you and me. We weren't breastfed. We're great. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] We’re ok. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Many times I'm in the room and I'm like, well, were you breastfed? They're like, no. And I'm like, look, you're a doctor. You're great. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] You're a doctor. You're a whole doctor. You're okay. [JENNIFER LEZAK] You're smart. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Do you love your parents? Do you love your mom? Do you love them? Okay, great. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I feel like I'm like here to talk about breastfeeding, but I'm all talking about not breastfeeding. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] No, but I hear you. If anything, what I hear you saying is that however it turns out, it's okay. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It's okay. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It's okay. [JENNIFER LEZAK] And you're no less of a person because you didn't breast or chest feed. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] No, you're not. That you're okay. That's what I hear from you. And I think it's really powerful coming from you because I think, to be honest, I think you would be the last person that people would expect, being an IBCLC saying, it's okay. Like, it's okay. Whatever, however your journey ends up, it's okay. Hearing you say that, I hope is giving someone who's listening just a lot like this breath of fresh air, just like, ah, I hope that somatically their body is just relaxing hearing you say that. I know mine would. [JENNIFER LEZAK] I've had people say, oh my God, I thought you were going yell at me. I'm like, I'm yelling at you because you don't breastfeed. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] No, not at all. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Listen, it's about your mental health more than anything. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] That's what it's really all about. [JENNIFER LEZAK] My goal is not for you to breastfeed. My goal is for you to be happy and enjoy your time with your baby. Because as you know, it goes by so quick. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It goes by so quick. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, whatever that looks like to you and your goals, yeah, I'm here to help you. But I'm also here to sometimes be realistic and say, listen, I don't know that this is goinghappen for you. Let's think about another way that we can support you that will make you happy.

( 29:16) Why work with a lactation consultant?

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Why should someone work with an IBCLC? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Like I said, in the beginning, it's hard to learn how to position and latch, especially if, you know, a lot of people have sisters and family members around that are like, oh yeah, I totally know how to do this. But many of us are alone, especially in a city like Los Angeles. A lot of people live here with no family, you know, no close friends. Sometimes it's a little tweak, you know, they're like, ah, it hurts so much. And I'm like, why don't we try this? And they're like, oh my God that doesn’t hurt at all. I'm like, okay, let's practice, let's keep practicing. So positioning and latching in the early days would be one reason. Just reassurance. Like, okay, yeah, no, you're doing good. Your baby's gaining weight. That alone is helpful, but it could be even bigger. Like, you know, my baby's not gaining weight or there's maybe there's a tongue tie, things like that. There's a lot of reasons that one would call a lactation consultant. Sometimes I'll go to people's houses and they have no problems. They're like, I just wanted someone to talk to. I'm like, okay, great, I'm here. Let's do this. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] That’s so good. [JENNIFER LEZAK] So tell me everything. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] That's so good. Not all superheroes wear capes and you're definitely a superhero, Jennifer, because it's needed. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Thank you. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] I think when people are in that space, it's just like, we just need someone to say it's okay. And I think you're doing that work.

(30:34) Must have product, besides an Ergobaby carrier?

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] What is a must have product that you would recommend to new parents? [JENNIFER LEZAK] I'm like, just keep what you have in your house. I feel like we overbuy. I think when you had your first son and I had my first son, there was like one stroller, one baby carrier, one whatever. And now, and I'm like, oh my God, look at all these strollers. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] There's so many things. Yeah. There's so many things. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Can't even imagine how stressful it must be to be like, what do I need? What do I need? First of all, in the first several weeks, you don't need anything. Like, where are you going? Diapers? I just use the pillows that are in your house. I will say, I do love a nursing stool. Those are one of my favorite things because they really help get you into a nice position. So you’re not like, you know, hunched over. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Is a nursing stool, is that something you step on or put your feet on? What does it look like? [JENNIFER LEZAK] I have one right here, hang on. Okay, you gotta show me what this looks like. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Listen, my kids are adults and I keep my nursing stool. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh my goodness, I love it. [JENNIFER LEZAK] It's just a little wooden stool because they're comfortable. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh, I love it. [JENNIFER LEZAK] They just lift your feet up and tilt your pelvis so you're relaxed and lean back, right? You're not like, ooh, they're resting. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Like this, yeah. [JENNIFER LEZAK] So I do love a nursing stool because people do tend to like, or their short legs and their feet are dangling. Like, that's not comfy. Nursing stools I love, obviously, Ergobaby carriers are my favorite. I still save my first one. It's just like nostalgic for me. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] It's the best. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Yeah, baby carrier for me is like probably the top thing because when your baby's upset, I'm like, pop him in the carrier and go for a walk. Everyone's happy. I feel like, yeah, at the beginning, it's just like all you need is you and your baby and a comfortable bed and people bringing you food.

(32:33) If you can’t sleep at night, try mentally taking yourself on a walk

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] What keeps you up at night as a mama? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Oh, I mean, last night, who knows? A million things. A million things keep me awake at night. It could be like, how am I paying for college? Is there going be an earthquake? I don't even want to know about the foundation under my house, you know, retirement. You know, a million things. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] A million things, got it. [JENNIFER LEZAK] Just run through my mind all night. What's interesting though is I heard somewhere if you can't sleep to mentally take yourself on a walk that you know, and I've been doing that. And I don't even make it to the end of my block, and I must fall asleep. You just try to stay calm. It's hard to control life, but yeah. Nighttime, yeah. I could think of 10 million things that stress me out. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Oh my gosh.

(33:27) Words of advice: breathe and ask for help if you need it

[BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] All right, lastly, a lot of our listeners will probably be up pacing the floor tonight as they're listening in. What is the word of advice that you would give them if they're stressed out right now? [JENNIFER LEZAK] Breathe, ask for help. It's okay to say, I need help. Crying always feels good to me. Know it will pass. It will change. People say, when does it get less stressful? And I said, well, it doesn't, it just changes. But it does go by so fast. That first year is a blur. It's a blur. When I look at photos, I'm like, oh, those babies, they're so cute. It's so sweet. Life is precious. And you just gotta put your priorities where you know that you can achieve them and don't put too much pressure on yourself to be perfect. Your baby's going love you. The morning will come, and it'll be another day. Again, I always say, don't look too far into the future because we can't control it, right? And it just stresses you out. Like, oh my God, what's going happen? We don't know. We're going be calm. But asking for help, having a supportive, I always say, you just need one friend to call. Is this normal? Is this normal? What about this? Am I okay? One good friend goes a far away. And finding your people. [BRANDI SELLERZ-JACKSON] Find your people. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And I hope that this episode has made your life with baby a little bit easier. Ergo Baby is dedicated to building a global community of confident parents. The Life With Baby podcast is just one of many ways we hope to support parents through all the joys and jobs of parenting. This podcast was produced by Tiffany Toby, consulting producer, Anthony Gannon, edited by Angel Hunter and Hannah Richardson Speckart, written by Vittoria Allen, sound design and theme song by John Jackson, graphics designed by Noah Friedenberg, and our executive producers are Christina Soletti and Kalani Robinson. And I am your host, Brandi Sellerz-Jackson.